6/13/02 17:59:43 Opening "Chat Log 6/13/02" Ctrykin: Good evening! Thursday, 6/13/02 Tina L. Miller "How to Avoid Being Rejected by an Editor" HOST WRTR WYates: Hello, all! LynColeman: groan, my computer is locking up Loriendil: Hello everyone! LynColeman: I'll be right back after I reboot Ctrykin: Are we all ready to talk about that horrid subject: rejection! Or more importantly how to avoid it? MBananas: I like your colors, loriendil HumngbrdDB: YES!!! HumngbrdDB: lol HOST WRTR WYates: Pretty soon! Loriendil: Thanks -- it's PowerTools CHICKY11: Hello! HOST WRTR WYates: That you, Tina? Ctrykin: Yes, it is me! ;-) DiagoCat: You don't have to be so cheerful about it, Deby. CHICKY11: That's her, Bill Loriendil: I am! Getting ready to write my first query so Loriendil: I'm *very* interested!!!! HumngbrdDB: LOL Loriendil: Deby shouldn't be cheerful -- she's got my kid! HumngbrdDB: rofl CHICKY11: Hello Tina, did you use my link? HOST WRTR WYates: Hmmm, doesn't look like picture... :) Ctrykin: Yes, I used your link, and here I am! DiagoCat: Yes, Lee. I heard she planned to throw him in the lake. Loriendil: Yep Heheheh CHICKY11: Tina, I think Bill is holding on for a few more to show up. CHICKY11: Hello Cat and Deby HOST WRTR WYates: Peg will not be here tonight... Dinner with relatives... DiagoCat: Hi Chicky. CHICKY11: Or should I say Birdie? LOL HumngbrdDB: Hi chicky :-) Loriendil: Oooh -- bad! HumngbrdDB: :-P CHICKY11: And, Bill and Lee CHICKY11: And whomever I am missing Loriendil: Urp! Ew. I shouldn't have had that brownie..... HOST WRTR WYates: I won't be there Tuesday night - grandson in town... HOST WRTR WYates: What was in it, Lee? :) DiagoCat: Fun time, Bill? Loriendil: *snicker* I won't tell! Loriendil: :-) HOST WRTR WYates: WB, Lynn.. Loriendil: wb Lynn CHICKY11: wb, Lyn LynColeman: thanks, I hate that HumngbrdDB: wb Lynn CHICKY11: After last week-end - this week-end- I am crazy-gluing all my kids to the floor and sleeping twenty hours HOST WRTR WYates: Any writing news? HumngbrdDB: rofl DiagoCat: And summer is just beginning Chicky. Loriendil: ROFL Chicky! CHICKY11: Cat- my baby is 25 - why must I still go through this!! CHICKY11: LOL HumngbrdDB: ROFL Loriendil: ROFL! DiagoCat: And he let you glue him to the floor? LynColeman: I just heard my publisher is going to buy Key West and republish as a collection MBananas: roflol HumngbrdDB: congratulations, Lynn!!! CHICKY11: Not really, and he is a she- and she probably can still out run me. MBananas: congratulations, Lynn LynColeman: thank you, it's great news Loriendil: How wonderful! Congrats Lynn! HOST WRTR WYates: Amplify, Lynn, what is Key West? besides the island... HumngbrdDB: Hi zippie Loriendil: And I'm still trying to work on writing my first DiagoCat: Hi, Mrs Zippie Loriendil: query letter. *sigh* LynColeman: Ahh I wrote a series of four books for Heartsong Presents the setting was Key West CHICKY11: Tina- to catch you up - two of my adult sons and my niece were in a boating accident Saturday night. LynColeman: They are rebundling them into one volume that will go to the stores Mrs Zippie: Greetings Diago, Everyone Ctrykin: Are they OK? LynColeman: At a special rate of around $6. Loriendil: Hello Zippie HOST WRTR WYates: That's right... My sister used to live there and my mother lived there in WWII. CHICKY11: Tina, better now than they were in the wee hours of Sunday morning. HumngbrdDB: ((((((Cindy)))))) HumngbrdDB: uhoh... I think I'm about to be disconnected... again! CHICKY11: Welcome Mrs. Zippie LynColeman: My parents lived there for nearly a decade HOST WRTR WYates: We'll start in a minute or so... CHICKY11: Bill, want me to say grace? Loriendil: Hello Bard HOST WRTR WYates: Please, Lee... I'll call on you at the end of the intro... Thanks HOST WRTR WYates: Welcome to the Christian Writer's Workshop We will be under protocol tonight. Type "?" to ask a question Type "!" to make a comment. Please type "ga" when you are done. I will call on you in turn. CHICKY11: On who, Bill? CHICKY11: whom HOST WRTR WYates: Our guest tonight is Tina Miller, editor & publisher of Obadiah Magazine. Tina will talk about how NOT to get your ms rejected by editors. Good topic! :) LynColeman: HOST WRTR WYates: Lee, would you open in prayer for us? Loriendil: Cindy offered!1 Loriendil: LOL CHICKY11: HOST WRTR WYates: Right! Sorry for the mix-up! Cindy... CHICKY11: Oh yeah - GRACE CHICKY11: jk Loriendil: <---- rolling CHICKY11: Father, we thank you for this time together.... Be present with us, and help us to write to Glory. Let us learn and remember tonight, all hat you would have us to know. Amen HOST WRTR WYates: AMEN!! HumngbrdDB: Amen :-) DiagoCat: Amen LynColeman: Amen Loriendil: Amen! MBananas: Amen! HOST WRTR WYates: Tina, Thanks for being our guest again... The floor is yours... CHICKY11: together, too HumngbrdDB: <------- is a little groggy after taking HALF of a pain tablet so may not say much tonight Ctrykin: Thank you so much! Before we jump into why we DON'T want to get rejection letters and how NOT to...let me say just a word of encouragement for those of you who HAVE been getting rejection letters... Ctrykin: Rejection letters CAN actually be a GOOD thing! Besides redecorating your office walls from time to time (and believe me, I have collected enough to do that several times over myself over the years), rejections Ctrykin: a) tell the IRS that you are pursuing a career as a writer! They justify the deductions you claim on your Schedule C each year... Ctrykin: and b) they tell me that you are SUBMITTING your work! And that's important! You cannot become a published writer if you don't take the risk and send things out... Ctrykin: So kudos to those of you who ARE sending your stuff out there into the world!!! Ctrykin: But on to how to get ACCEPTANCES instead. Ctrykin: First I want to share one of my pet peeves as an editor: Writers who query or send us a manuscript and spell the magazine's name wrong. Ctrykin: Please, please, please be sure you have the magazine's name correct, and the editor's name, and the other pertinent information. Show the editor you've done your homework. Ctrykin: And of course make sure the quality of your query or submission is the best that it can be--no grammatical or spelling errors. Ctrykin: All of this, of course is basic stuff... Ctrykin: I'd like to interject some questions into the "workshop" portion of material that I can present to keep this lively. Do we have any questions to start off this evening? Ctrykin: ga HOST WRTR WYates: ? HOST WRTR WYates: WTYates... HOST WRTR WYates: What is the most common problem you see as an editor?/ Ctrykin: It might be helpful to me to know if all of you are more interested in questions and answers related to BOOK ms submissions or MAGAZINE submissions. What kinds of things are all of you writing? The last time I was a guest... it seemed a lot of the questions were more related to books... Ctrykin: The most common problem--probably writers who are too impatient. We get a large number of submissions, and we're a small magazine with a small staff. One of an editor's pet peeves are multiple emails and posts inquiring about the status of a submission before an appropriate amount of time has elapsed to enable the editor to review the submission with all the others and respond. HOST WRTR WYates: Right now, I'm with mags but several here are working on books, I know, so go with books first.. Loriendil: ? Ctrykin: One critical element of getting an acceptance for a book is knowing the market. Ctrykin: By that I mean, knowing that your book is marketable. For instance, we get a lot of submissions for books of poetry... but unfortunately, it is VERY difficult to market and sell complete books of poetry. Ctrykin: As a publisher, it is not enough to get good writing. It must also be marketable--i.e., profitable--in order for the publisher to invest the dollars necessary into the production of the book. Ctrykin: As a writer, you can help a great deal by targeting the market for your book when you are writing it or proposing it to the publisher. WHO will buy your book and WHY? If you cannot answer that question, you probably need to tweak your idea a bit more. Because this is one of the first questions the publisher will ask you. Ctrykin: As an author, you also need to go into the process knowing that you will need to work in partnership with the publisher to market, publicize, and sell your book once it is in print. A lot of authors do not realize how much time and Ctrykin: effort that will require of them. Ctrykin: What kinds of books are all of you writing? Perhaps I can give some specifics that will help. ga HOST WRTR WYates: Loriendil... Loriendil: What do you look for in a writer - experience with the topic, writing experience...? I only have one published fiction piece -- a *very* short story from the mid-eighties and it was published locally.... Loriendil: Not much to recommend myself, and not in the genre in which I am writing now: SF books... ga Ctrykin: Personally I could care less about experience. First and foremost I look for a good strong story and good strong effective writing. Ctrykin: Obadiah is a small publishing house, so we know that it is unlikely we will pull in writers that are big names. We are very willing to work with new writers. But the writing must move us in some way so that we know it will move the readers. For Obadiah, we also want a topic that will not conflict with Christian values. And of course, as I mentioned earlier, we look for ideas and topics that we feel will sell in the market today. Ctrykin: The writing has to be believable. And depending on the topic, credentials or life experience might be important... Ctrykin: We also look for writers who are professional, cooperative, and helpful--writers we believe we can trust to work with us to market the book once it's printed, but not to go off on their own in a thousand different directions without the publisher. The publisher calls the final shots, but we want writers who are looking for a partnership type relationship. Ctrykin: Writers have more time to devote to plugging their book, and that's a vital element of a successful marketing campaign for a book. ga Loriendil: Thank you ...ga CHICKY11: ! HOST WRTR WYates: CHICKY11... CHICKY11: I am working on a novel with the POV of the psychologist. I am answering your question, Tina Ctrykin: Great! Sounds very interesting. I've always been fascinated by psychology. ga CHICKY11: It is titled, My Side Of The Couch - Ctrykin: ;-) Catchy ga CHICKY11: It is cutting through the psycho-babble top the crust. ga HOST WRTR WYates: ? HOST WRTR WYates: WTYates... HOST WRTR WYates: How many books do you publish each year? How many proposals do you get each year? ga Ctrykin: So far this year we have two books actually in print in our hands. We have 3 or 4 more scheduled to be in hand around September 1 and several others planned for the fall. We receive probably several dozen manuscripts or proposals per year, maybe as many as 50. Unfortunately, many of them do not meet our needs. As I mentioned, we get a lot of books of poetry, which good as they might be just do not sell well. Ctrykin: We've also received some really good examples of poor writing, I am afraid to say. I truly never realized how difficult it would be to sit on this side of the editor's desk. But it makes me really appreciate GOOD writers who are professionals! Ctrykin: One of the books being released September 1 is a compilation of letters, stories, and poems related to the September 11, 2001 tragedy. Two other books that will be released this year are anthologies--and maybe some of you would be interested in submitting your stories for consideration. Info about them is available on our website under Books. ga CHICKY11: ? HOST WRTR WYates: CHICKY11... CHICKY11: Would you reject a well-written manuscript based on your ability to publisher put it on a burner until you have time? GA Ctrykin: We try to be up front with our authors. Right now, for instance, we will not be able to commit to publishing any additional titles in 2002 for financial reasons. We are fully committed. Ctrykin: But if we received a really well written ms we were interested in, we would tell the author we liked it and give that author some options: stick with us and we'll consider it for 2003 or feel free to take it to another publisher. Ctrykin: We wouldn't deliberately hold an author back from pursuing other publishers because of the fact that we are a small press with limited funds. Ctrykin: We've been blessed in that many of our authors really want to work with US because of what we stand for and have chosen to bear with us. ga CHICKY11: Would you commit now, and publish in 2003? ga Ctrykin: We would tentatively commit but the contracts would not actually be signed until closer to actual publication. In the meantime, we would be taking the preliminary steps necessary to get the ms ready to go to the printer--cover design, editing, preliminary marketing, assigning an ISBN, pre-orders, getting review copies out there, getting endorsements, etc. ga LynColeman: ? Tawny084: ? HOST WRTR WYates: LynColeman... LynColeman: Are their writing guidelines for your books as well as your magazine needs on your web page? ga LynColeman: they're not there Ctrykin: You know, right now I don't think we have book guidelines listed. Ctrykin: We're pretty flexible in what we will look at, but we probably should get some more specific guidelines set up to help pre-screen some of the ms we're getting that aren't right for us. ga LynColeman: okay, I didn't see them, thought perhaps I was missing them CHICKY11: HOST WRTR WYates: Tawny084... Tawny084: What do you expect the writers to do in order to help market their book? Ctrykin: Not enough hours in the day! Anyone else have that problem? ;-) ga Ctrykin: That's a big question. In part, it will depend on the kind of book or the topic of the book and who the targeted market is. But in general we want writers who will READ the industry "Bibles" of book marketing--we provide a list of books we want our writers to read--and to help us brainstorm unique promotional strategies. Ctrykin: Because we are a small press, we do not have the marketing dollars the big presses have. We must rely on creative thinking and ingenuity. For example, we are running a nationwide contest called "Get Away and Pray" offering a free weekend get-a-way to one lucky lady here in Merrill, Wisconsin, in conjunction with my book, When A Woman Prays. The winner gets a weekend in a whirlpool suite to recharge spiritually, dinner with me, a signed copy of my book, flowers from our local florist, and more. Runners up get copies of the book. Contests and freebies get press. Press gets articles. Articles sell books. Ctrykin: We want our authors to come up with ideas, run them past us, and then we jointly implement them. They should be able and willing to generate local press and do book signings, too. ga Tawny084: :) Tawny084: thank you g/a Loriendil: ? ModernDayPaul: ! HOST WRTR WYates: Loriendil... Loriendil: How do you necessarily know who your audience is? Loriendil: I pulled out an old ms the other day of a fiction story about a missionary. I am not sure who the audience would be for it... How do you find this out? ga Ctrykin: That's a tough one. But consider who would read that kind of a story. Some books are easier to "target" than others. For example, children's books target children, but the targeted market is not just children but parents and grandparents who will buy the books. Ctrykin: My book on prayer targets women of faith or women seeking something in their life, but men also buy it for the women in their life. CHICKY11: :) Ctrykin: Some books are for a general audience, but you've got to narrow it down a bit more than that--will Christians read it or non-Christians? Will it appeal more to women or men? An older population or younger? That sort of thing. Ctrykin: Yes, "When A Woman Prays" ;-) ga HOST WRTR WYates: ModernDayPaul... Loriendil: Thank you ...ga ModernDayPaul: evening all... sorry I'm late... softball games ran late this evening :( ... did I miss much??? ga HOST WRTR WYates: Yes, but I will post the log soon. CHICKY11: Glad you're here Paul - get the log in two days. :) Ctrykin: Sometimes the style you use to write will help indicate who your audience is. Women often prefer writing with more "emotion" while men prefer more "action," for example. ga CHICKY11: ? Loriendil: ! HOST WRTR WYates: CHICKY11... CHICKY11: Is it good to consider a market for adult readers or does one have to be more specific? Ctrykin: Sometimes, and blessedly so, you will target a particular readership and find that your writing extends beyond the target. For example, I've had many men ask me why my book is specifically for women. They read the book and thought it applied to them, too! So much the better. CHICKY11: ? Ctrykin: I always tell writers to write with one specific reader in mind. In the process you will capture many more readers, but a visual image of your audience is helpful for both the writer and the publisher. ga HOST WRTR WYates: Loriendil... Loriendil: Thank you! That comment about the emotion vs action was *very* helpful! ga Ctrykin: Well, think about movies as an example. Chick flicks vs. action films! ;-) ga Ctrykin: It's a generalization and not always true in all cases, but it helps. Loriendil: ? HOST WRTR WYates: CHICKY11... CHICKY11: What other things can you tell us about avoiding rejection? Ctrykin: If there are guidelines, follow them closely. Once you send in your ms, try not to pester the editor or give the editor a "reason" to reject you. Editors are EXTREMELY busy--I had no idea how busy until I became one. So be very patient if you can, and very understanding, as well. If you get a personalized rejection or a request for more information or changes to your ms, seriously consider them. Ctrykin: An editor who will go out of their way to give you concrete feedback on your work is a gem. And most don't do it because they don't have the time, the energy, or the urge to negotiate a potential lawsuit for hurting someone's feelings. So consider it carefully if they do. Ctrykin: Look at the other work the press has published. While you don't want to submit something too close to what they already have, look for a pattern if there is one. Do they typically publish fiction or non-fiction or both? Children's books, workbooks for churches and ministry, poetry books, or anthologies? How long are the books they generally publish? What else might they have in common? Ctrykin: Then look to see if there is a gap in their frontlist. If there is, it could be that a book to fill that gap is already in the works, but you'll never know if you don't ask. It could also be a gap YOU could fill with your book. Editors often have preferences for certain things they like. If your book "fits" with their other materials, it stands a better chance. ga HOST WRTR WYates: Loriendil... Loriendil: Back to knowing your audience.... But what if you don't write for a reader, but just to please yourself? This might actually be considered a comment rather than a question -- I think it's more rhetorical, sorry.... And thanks for your help, Tina! ga DiagoCat: ? Ctrykin: Writing for yourself is wonderful! I do it all the time. BUT I cannot always sell that writing. You do need to differentiate between what you write for yourself and what you write to sell. It's like with the poetry...a book of poetry might be a wonderful gift and legacy to leave your children, and you might want to self-publish a few copies for your family, but it may not hold the seeds of financial success for a Ctrykin: publisher. ga HOST WRTR WYates: (3 minutes) HOST WRTR WYates: ? HOST WRTR WYates: WTYates... HOST WRTR WYates: Do you publish seasonal-themed anthologies? ga Ctrykin: The anthologies we have in the works now are the 911 book, one that includes childhood memories or memoirs, and ?? Uh oh, I'm drawing a blank. give me a minute. oh yes, the last one is called "Nudges from God." We typically look for something relatively timeless so it will have a long shelf life. ga CHICKY11: Ctrykin: Well, for us--since we publish a quarterly magazine--it seems like there is no slack time! LOL. But in general from my own personal life, I'd say, send it to me in January when there is little else to do in the dreary Wisconsin winter and I must just want to curl up with some manuscripts and read. OR send them to me in June when I might take them along on a camping trip to read in the woods. ;-_ Ctrykin: ;-) Ctrykin: ga HOST WRTR WYates: Thanks, Tina! This has been a MOST helpful session! Loriendil: Thank you Tina! CHICKY11: Yes, wonderful CHICKY11: Thank you DiagoCat: Very good session. Thank you. HumngbrdDB: wow, wonderful!!! Thanks, Tina! (hey, I'm still conscious!) Ctrykin: I'm so glad! I hope you will all feel free to keep me in mind if you have additional questions in the future, and of course, don't forget to check out our magazine and my book! :-) Ctrykin: Good, I didn't put anyone to sleep! LOL HOST WRTR WYates: And thanks to all! I will post the log on the CWW web site at http://www.billyates.com/cww/ CHICKY11: Only because I MADE you wake up ModernDayPaul: thanks Tina... wish I could have been here for the whole session HumngbrdDB: yeah, thanks Cindy! HumngbrdDB: lol HOST WRTR WYates: Tina, give your web site URL... LynColeman: thanks Tina, great job Loriendil: And don't forget, Tina -- update the website with guidelines for books too!!! Loriendil: :-D CHICKY11: Bill, will you delete my typo sentence first?? HOST WRTR WYates: Last... :) LynColeman: good night all HumngbrdDB: goodnight, Lynn Loriendil: ROFL Cindy! Ctrykin: I have two: My personal one (and incidentally I offer online one-on-one writing classes with mentoring) is: http://www.tinalmiller.com and the Obadiah one is http://www.obadiahpress.com Ctrykin: Thanks again! CHICKY11: delete, too MBananas: lol, I will from AOL, Cindy! CHICKY11: I give up! HOST WRTR WYates: Thanks, again, Tina! HOST WRTR WYates: Good-night, all! Ctrykin: You're very welcome. Ctrykin: Good night! HumngbrdDB: goodnight everyone! 6/13/02 19:01:40 Closing "Chat Log 6/13/02"